Doubters Inc. (or: Should you Incorporate?)

When I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad I was very interested in his section talking about incorporation. He talked about how rich people created companies and then exploited taxes laws that individuals could not. He referred to buying his car through his company and taking trips to Hawaii, essentially tax-deductible. As it turns out, he was being a little loose with his application of tax laws. From John T. Reed's website (a real estate investor who critiques gurus):

"Both corporations and sole proprietors pay expenses before they pay taxes. Sole proprietors pay taxes only on the net income of their businesses, which means after expenses."
A lot of buzz has been made about LLC's, which stands for Limited Liability Company, and how they can do great things for your business. Most talks on the subject concern either taxes or liability concerns. Let's take a look at the implications of creating an LLC.

It turns out that when creating a business (such as real estate) there are two ways to deal with taxes. You can be taxed as an individual or you can be taxed as a corporation (taxation as a corporation can be somewhat complex). One of the advantages of LLC's is that you can actually choose either of those tax structures.

If you choose to be taxed through your person, that's considered under law as being taxed as a sole proprietor (if you are alone in your venture) or as a general partnership (if there are multiple owners/investors). Both forms treat the business's finances as extensions of your own. Each year you take your profits (mostly rental income) and add it to your personal income. Then you subtract all of your expenses and other deductible items such as your mortgage interest and the depreciation you want to claim. For most investors this will actually drop you below your original taxable income (thus the tax advantage of real estate). This is also called pass-through taxation. If you do claim a profit, even after depreciation, then it will be taxed at your personal tax rate (probably 25-35%).

If you choose to be taxed as a corporation, then the business's finances are kept completely separate from your own. You file taxes separately for yourself and for your business. If your company is producing a profit, even after all the deductions you claim, you can benefit from a slightly more generous tax scale. The first $50,000 in profit generated by your company is taxed at only 15%. But there's a catch. Any time you try to transfer money to yourself from the corporation, you have to report that money as income on your personal tax return the following year. This is often called double-taxation.

For example, Jack is in the 25% tax bracket, and his company cleared $10,000 this year. If he files as a sole-proprietor then he will have to pay $2,500 in taxes and he walks away with $7,500 which is his money to do with as he wishes. He can go on a vacation or re-invest the money in his company.

If Jack files as a corporation then his company only owes $1,500 in taxes. So his company saves $1,000. If Jack intends to use that money to expand his business this is a good deal. However, if Jack wants to withdraw the profit to go on vacation, then he must report the money ($8,500) on his personal tax return the following year, and he'll pay taxes (25% = $2,125) on those gains. So he ends up paying a total of $3,625 in taxes.

As I mentioned above, one of the advantages of LLC's is that you can choose how your business is taxed (other forms of incorporation such as a C-Corp must be taxed as a corporation). If you are like most investors, however, you will probably stick to the rules of the sole-proprietorship. This is the default method of taxation when you own rental property, so forming an LLC doesn't offer any advantages there.

The second main reason that people form LLC's is to deal with liability issues. Under federal laws all assets outside of an LLC are safe if the LLC is sued. In other words, let's assume that you form an LLC and buy 2 houses. Let's say that you order a tremendous amount of work to be done on those homes, but never pay a dime. when the companies who did the work sue for pay, the worst that could happen is that you lose the 2 homes. Those companies could not come after your personal assets (your own home, your 401k, your college fund, etc.)

However, as with most things, there are loopholes. If you are sued under a tort (a lawsuit resulting from negligence), then not only can they sue your LLC for damages, but they can also sue you for your personal negligence. Now when McDonald's gets sued for pouring scalding coffee on a customer, it's shareholders can't be sued because they are passive investors. However the manager of that particular branch could be sued (as well as people further up the chain of command) because they are directly involved in the activity that caused the negligence to occur. If you do not take part in the daily management of your real estate (which is probably a bad idea to begin with) then forming an LLC could protect you. But since most investors will also manage their homes, an LLC would offer little protection from negligence, which is easily the most costly form of liability.

Secondly, if you do get sued you will most likely head to small-claims court. Most landlords choose to represent themselves as opposed to paying for lawyer. If you incorporate you most likely will not be allowed to represent yourself in court, instead you'll be forced to hire legal council. You could win your lawsuit and still lose a tremendous sum of money in legal fees. This is a matter of state law, not federal, so check out the laws where you are buying.

Finally, a last point to consider is that lenders are more wary of LLC's than individuals, and for good reason. As a result lending restrictions for LLC's are far stricter. If I buy a house to live in, the bank will give me a good rate because they feel relatively comfortable that I will do everything to protect where I live. If I buy my house as an investment property (you will be asked this question when applying for mortgages), but sign personally for it, they will give me a slightly worse rate because they know that since I don't live there I won't work as hard to save the house when things go bad.

But if I try to get a mortgage though an LLC, alarm bells go off in the bank. Not only is an LLC far more likely to default than an individual, but if you DO foreclose they can't come after you. Biff and I inquired about getting loans through LLC's while trying to secure a loan for House #1. The best rate we were quoted was a 70% loan at 16% interest. The loan we ended up with, we signed personally for it, was a 90% loan at 5.25% interest (in a 7-year ARM). If we had tried to borrow money through an LLC we would have had to put down three times as much cash and paid three times as much interest.

One way around this is to sign for the loan personally, but put the title in the name of the LLC. Unfortunately this is even more disastrous than signing as an LLC. If you do get sued and end up losing the house, the bank will still come after you, personally, to pay off the balance of your mortgage.

So why would you even consider an LLC? Most people I've spoken with or read about who look seriously into it choose instead to remain a sole-proprietorship or a general partnership. To deal with liability, these investors simply purchase a large umbrella insurance policy. This policy costs very little, but is far better protection for a real estate investor than an LLC ever could be.

8 comments:

Chris Lengquist said...

Thank you for this post. No comments? I'm not suprised. Here is another area that I stand out from the crowd because I don't go along. I have umbrella policies that should take care of any disasters.

You chose not to mention the yearly maintenance LLCs require, as well. If the "maintenance" isn't kept up the shield is penetrable anyway.

This is simply one of the best explanations I've seen. I'll have to do a link back. Hoe that is okay with you!

Anonymous said...

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梁爵 said...

2020.04.12新型冠狀病毒病全國酒店工作都停業,讓酒店上班酒店小姐生計大受影響,為了求生存,不少酒店打工小姐乾脆另闢「戰場」,跟著客人一起到KTV或是複合式釣蝦場,一來檯費可以酒店上班照算,更不用被八大行業酒店經紀抽成。畢竟酒店生活常熬夜又不規律,這樣變相坐檯,醫師表示還是有風險。穿著蕾絲小外套手臂若隱若現,將近170公分的身高搭配一雙典雅跟鞋,他是酒店PT酒店小姐Angel,在業界走跳這麼久,還是第一次遇到酒店全面停業。酒店小姐Angel:「我們現在多半就是飯局或者是伴遊啊,那甚至是可能有當秘書或是一日助理啊,就比較趨向這一塊。」有的酒店小姐轉戰一般KTV或複合式釣蝦場,一樣照算坐檯費跟客人喊價 ,不用被酒店經紀抽成。雖然Angel年過30,但身材外貌保養得宜,會說話、擅交際,比起年輕女孩略勝一籌。酒店小姐Angel:「有一些比較年輕的妹妹,她或許對一些社會經驗或者是其他比較能聊的東西,沒辦法跟客人可以很聊得下去,很聊得來這樣,那我們比較可以留心。」畢竟八大行業工作飲酒,基本上不會戴口罩,社交距離也根本無法保持,接觸的客人太複雜更難自我保護。知名八大行業酒店經紀:「(酒店小姐)她們比較常常熬夜,對生活作息比較不規則,壓力有時候會比較大一點,這個感染以後這個病就會比較難以控制。」這回叫傳播或跑小吃店等於是變相坐檯,防不勝防。

梁爵 said...

2020.08.06【工作相關職場分享必看不敢來酒店上班-酒店打工的原因】就算是酒店應徵也是有求職陷阱的!梁小尊來告訴你。
【工作相關職場分享必看酒店小姐的基本介紹跟工作內容
很多女孩我在酒店上班的日子在網路PTT的疑問:我在Google上網搜尋有找到好幾家酒店在徵酒店助理,可是我一到現場的時候,他們卻要我做酒店公關的工作,讓我感覺得害怕,可是酒店兼差不是一個複雜的工作環境?Google搜尋網頁上面寫的薪水又很誘人,真的很想嘗試看看,但又怕被騙!有人可以告訴我,我該怎麼做嗎?
梁曉尊來幫你解答: 酒店小姐上班通常會取什麼名字?
網路上的應徵酒店助理都是噱頭而已,實際上他們要應徵的都是酒店公關,薪水也是想用高薪來吸引人家進來應徵而已,如果他們看到你,覺得外型不錯,就會開始跟你說做酒店公關的薪水會比較多,就會開始慫恿你做酒店公關,因為酒店最缺的還是小姐,至於其他職務的話,有可能也有缺…但是要看店家需要的人數跟目前還有沒有餘額,如果要應徵酒店類的工作還是打聽清楚會比較安全、比較保險。
酒店助理,薪水也大概在兩萬五左右,跟外面的助理薪水其實是差不多的,不會因為酒店是高消費的地方,所有職務的薪水都會提高。
再來普羅大眾網路PTT時常發問: 酒店小姐去酒店上班都一定要出場接s嗎?如果真的要應徵酒店小姐 有什麼要注意的?要如何保護自己?
當然有些女孩們,因為生活上某些因素,需要酒店小姐這份工作又擔心受騙!沒有方向可尋....
梁曉尊再教你另一種保護自己的方式: 透過Google搜尋酒店經紀的名稱,是否有相關事業! 。如果只是看到漂亮的網頁 ,但沒有任何內容也別輕易相信(因為很多不肖酒店人士,透過假網頁做非法之事)共同點 經紀人名稱Google搜尋不到,更沒有本人照片(女孩們千萬要特別注意)。

梁爵 said...

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梁爵 said...

台北市昨新增一百例本土確診,主要仍集中於八大行業酒店打工及校園,其中包括兩起酒店上班KTV群聚案,累計廿六人染疫,而多處行政區內的國小及幼兒園也再傳疫情,共增十二例確診、五校的班級停課;市長柯文哲昨於防疫記者會上表示,此波疫情不容樂觀,防疫也比想像中困難,國民要有心理準備,評估疫情持續延燒兩個月後將達頂峰。8學生確診 再增5校班級停課北市副市長黃珊珊指出,昨日北市新增一百例本土確診中,有廿四例屬於「陰轉陽」,另有兩起分別位於信義區與中山區的酒店公關KTV群聚案,已累計廿六人染疫;校園方面,信義、大安、內湖區再有八名國小學生確診,中山區某幼兒園則增四例,昨再添五校的班級停課。
七大類場所酒店經紀消費者須打3劑疫苗黃珊珊說,針對酒店工作KTV外的舞廳、舞場、坐檯小姐、酒家酒店上班、特種咖啡茶室、夜店、三溫暖等七大類場所展開嚴格稽查,相關酒店應徵工作人員須接種三劑疫苗、四月卅日前每週加做快篩,消費者則須提供接種三劑疫苗證明才可入內消費,若業者酒店小姐違反防疫規定,每次罰款從三千元至一.五萬元不等,超過四次則連續開罰一.五萬元,而北市府自上週五開始針對七大類場所稽查五十五次,目前查無違規。
柯:若未來單日確診人數超過130例 染疫者須留置家中
柯文哲則再度重申,台灣已打開邊境,要做到清零便已不可能,須研究如何以最低社會成本與病毒共存,因此北市自四月起便鼓勵居家隔離者在家隔離,並將加強版酒店上班防疫專責旅館擴增至一千三百床用以收治確診者,但若未來單日確診人數超過一百卅例,則確診者就須留置家中。
柯文哲說明,北市加強版防疫專責旅館配有醫護、血氧機、監視器,若每日新增確診數在一百卅例以下,則能提供較佳照護效率,但病例若太多,則須留置在家,而北市也採取遠端視訊醫療做為配套作法,自今年一月一日起至四月五日已服務八百廿九人次,本週將全面建置網路虛擬醫院系統,加速規劃在家照護。黃珊珊補充,居家檢疫、居家隔離、甚至日後確診留在家中的民眾,可能有人有慢性病用藥需求,經與台北市藥師公會討論後,會與中央請求延長健保卡過卡時間,使民眾能事後補過卡,解決送藥問題。北市疫苗系統開放預約 18至24日接種
此外,確診人數增加,疫苗打氣也隨之提升;副市長蔡炳坤指出,六十五歲以上長輩接種疫苗可獲一千元禮券的優惠措施可見成效,上路以來約催出一萬多人前來接種,另,今起北市疫苗系統開放預約四月十八至廿四日的疫苗接種,此次約提供近九萬劑量能,鼓勵市民多加利用。
柯文哲再強調,此波疫情不容樂觀,因應防疫也比想像中的困難,儘管盡可能透過疫調封鎖、控制,但病毒已進入社區,確診案例必會持續上升,若借鏡鄰近國家疫情發展態勢,預計台灣將在兩個月後達到疫情頂峰,呼籲民眾以審慎態度、放鬆心情做好防疫工作。

梁爵 said...

新北市土城警分局一名偵查佐於3日與酒店打工女性友人到台北新兒童樂園玩,6日晚間採檢確診,據台北市衛生局公布的足跡來看,確診女性友人是酒店上班制服酒店小姐,有老司機就大曝這家制服酒店的新鮮玩法,比照澳門桑拿做出「櫥窗大魚缸」噱頭,將坐檯小姐放在櫥窗內,供上門的客人挑選。指出,這名現年31歲的土城分局偵查佐,主要擔任鑑識工作,在夜店認識這名自稱大體化妝師的女子卻在6日雙雙採檢確診,事後該名女子也被起底,發現她是中山區的酒店工作制服酒店坐檯小姐,,據表示,該酒店的坐檯小姐上班時身穿火辣性感服飾,吸引客人上門消費。有老司機透露,原本疫情前這間酒店底單為1350元,但是疫情後調整為1500元,另外還需要支付少爺小費1千元,加上疫情停業影響,店家也開始加收包廂費,如果是單人的包廂費用為500元,平常包廂費用則收取約1千元左右,營業時間從傍晚5點開始至隔天上午7點多左右結束。熟知酒店文化的酒店經紀表示,制服店的酒店小姐沒有便服店或禮服店的坐檯小姐外型亮眼,必須靠大膽作風吸引客群,治裝上也以「稀少布料」為主,這位確診的酒店小姐店家,甚至推出新的選妹方式,俗稱「櫥窗大魚缸」,就是讓酒店公關坐檯小姐全部在櫥窗內讓客人挑選,有老司機表示,素質不比便服店、禮服店小姐外貌來的好看。這間酒店業者店接獲消息後也自主停業3天,針對店內環境進行清消,甚至還要求所有酒店應徵員工快篩,若出現不適症狀者,也立刻到醫院進行PCR檢測。 除此之外,高雄也爆出酒店上班群聚疫情累計112人確診,除了雅閣、金芭黎、帝堡等3家娛樂場,幾乎老司機常去的場所全部淪陷,其中,苓雅區的典璦SPA會館對外以婚紗會館的名義經營,私底下卻是業界知名的「半套店」,頗受年輕老司機的歡迎。根據高雄市府昨天公布新增59例的海量確診足跡,上頭驚見「酒店上班名單」,包括雅閣會館、金芭黎舞廳、帝堡101會館全中鏢,根據統計,這波娛樂場所染疫事件,累積至8日已造成112人確診。另外,今天新增58個確診個案中,又有50例屬於娛樂場所,根據公布的足跡,除了已有群聚事件的AGO雅閣私人會館、帝堡一零一會館之外,不少網友注意起足跡中包含大帝國舞廳、王牌精品會館、金色養生館以及紅樓夢男模會所、典璦美容美體會館等。其中,苓雅區的典璦SPA美容美體對外以婚紗會館名義經營,私底下卻是業界知名的「半套店」,2020年曾被警方查獲從事半套性交易被判罰,根據當時的判決,半套的「消費」是1600元。會館還有經營臉書、IG等社群媒體,內容可看出店內小姐都穿著女僕裝、旗袍、水手服、黑絲白襯衫OL裝等,制服控的客人可以隨意挑選,是頗具知名度的娛樂場所。